Appendix 4
Transcript of Interview
with Rebecca Barry
This is the transcript of my interview of documentarian, producer and writer Rebecca Barry. It is an artificial intelligence generated transcript that can contain mistakes and approximations.
Call with Rebecca Barry - Meeting Recording Transcript by Otter.ai
Mon, Oct 10, 2022 5:24PM • 1:34:55
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
film, people, participants, explained, question, project, documentary, person, thought, intimacy, talking, daughter, psychologist, ethics, story, understand, life, stockade, find, consent
SPEAKERS
Flore Vallery-Radot, Rebecca Barry
Flore Vallery-Radot 00:02
I don't know if it's working. Can you see if it's working? He's got a green light. So that's probably Yeah, right. The idea is that I want to quote you properly. Sure. And also I want to, you know, be relaxed when I'm listening to you and not feeling like, Oh, my God, I need to take notes. And I don't want to miss anything.
Rebecca Barry 00:26
And that's fine. I get it. I've done these before. So totally understand you've you've got a record. That's good.
Flore Vallery-Radot 00:34
And if you if you need something, why are we talking, and you think now that this is definitely not getting in? Not a problem at all, just let me know. And we'll take it out. So I've got two agendas here, actually. The first is that as I said, in my email, I want to interview you, for my exegesis on ethics. And the second is this after the assignment that I'm talking about killing one bird with two stones or two birds with one stone. And we asked at the end of the masters to do a, which you might have done a practitioners case study. And the idea is to understand someone's that you admire this person's carry a path, talk about best professional practice in your fields, also the pressures that you had to deal with. And the tools that you've used to build resilience. The school wants you to found find, tell me about all the fabulous opportunities you've found in this industry. And also, possibly advice for an emerging practitioner like myself. But before I ask the question, I wanted to present a little bit about me and my project. So my question is, will make a bit more sense. And or I'm also very conscious of your time. So if you feel like it's, it's too long, and you need to go, it's absolutely fine. And I might send you an email to ask you more questions if there are some missing ones. So our that may or may not be slow. I'm 46. I've got three kids 1917. And 11.
Rebecca Barry 02:32
I got did not like that you look like you're in your 20s.
Flore Vallery-Radot 02:38
I get that a lot from my mom. It's good genes. But I do have kids that are much taller than me. And I'm finishing my master's actually in the next few weeks. It's a Masters of Arts screen, in documentary. I am French. Born in Paris, I've moved in Australia in 2004. I've also lived in London, Greece, Lebanon, and all over Australia, including Melbourne, Perth, and Sydney. So basically what I'm about is finding the beauty, the complexity, but also the quirkiness of life everywhere I go. And I'm trying to capture that by photography, as well as film. And I mostly work and collaborate with artists and makers because they're the people who interests me the most. And, but I want to represent and collaborate with women in particularly, and I was very moved by your film, I am a girl, I'd really really moved me. I love the story that I read on an SBS article of how it came about. And I love that you lifted to marinate for three years. It's when it's in the article, I thought it was very interesting. So the first film I did at Afters was called landscape. It's a very short film. It's the first collaborative film you create in the Masters. And it was a macro footage of six different women's skin. And it was shot as a landscape. And there was a female voice saying a poem and the idea was to interrogate why we admire you know, our planets or other planets landscapes, the folds the cracks the tears while when we look at the folds, the cracks and the tears of our skin, especially women skins. We were appalled. In one case, we pull out that little Canon camera and the other we make usually nasty comments. So that was my first project and the project. I'm working on it At the moment, which is my capstone film, my master's film is it's in the making. It's hopefully be finished in June because I'm finishing my master's now. But I've extended the post production. So I'm co directing this film with my daughter, lino, who's just turned 11 last week. And it's, it's a discussion about growing up, and all the taboos that come with it. So it's a lot about the periods, but also boobs, hairs, moods, all sorts of things. And we're trying to make it a fun and open minded moment. And the idea is to inspire kids, but also parents to open up these discussions. I think that the idea of taking part of such a taboo subject, which I still find very taboo around me, is that by simply talking about a taboo, hopefully, you break it. And if we do that, with a lot of kindness, and a lot of laughter, it hopefully will work. So because of that film, which has no name at the moment, and my exegesis had to be about the ethical considerations of making a film about taboo, and with my daughter, and a little daughter, very big, very big deal. So there's the gross imbalance of power. Yes, with us, there is also the change of dynamic between the fam family dynamic guy, I say that my family is a bit of a dictatorship, you know, I see you do this, you meant to do this. And CO directing your film, which is a completely different dynamic. So I really pushed me to research about ethics. And, and I found your work while I was doing that, and I devoured it. And at first my first reaction was, Oh, damn, she's done it.
Rebecca Barry 07:06
No, no, I've, I've, I've I've, I'm a little paving stone in the discussion of, it's now your responsibility to progress, put another paver in the pavement. That's how I see it.
Flore Vallery-Radot 07:21
I love that. I think that it's exactly what I'm doing. Because I want to narrow down my exegesis with working with with your own kids. So it's very, it's very precise. And I'm using your path and your ideas. And with before I got familiar with your work, I did an interesting experiment. Actually, I'd like to mention, I collaborated with an intimacy coordinator to build a protocol for lino, the film crew and I. And it came from the very difficult shoot on my film landscape, the skin film, where I got imposed by Afters, an intimacy coordinator, I was furious about it, because I thought that she would impair or interfere when it may, you know, privilege participant filmmaker relationship and, and then I discovered how difficult it was, for me personally, it's very personal. To deal with the participants trauma, I asked people to come with a scam. And I was very naive about it. It's my first film, I thought I you know, they're going to come with a nice anything where they fail when they were a kid. But that's not what happened. People came with very heavy scars, and there were physical scars and mental scars. And I was just sitting there. And they went at me with this. And it was very, very difficult for me to have the right reaction because I'm a rookie, and I didn't have the tools. So actually, the intimacy coordinator against which I was completely ended up being awesome and extremely helpful. So I, at the end of this experience, I told her about my daughter's film, and she said she could help me with her knowledge of cinema and an interactions with people to create a safe space and especially with children, because she's also a psychologist, so to create a safe space for my daughter, amazing. So this is also where my exegesis is going to go. It's in this particular experience with the intimacy coordinator who's a new role in cinema. So this is where I'm at at the moment, and I would like to ask you a few questions starting with the you know, the Afters, questions of the very standard, professional practice courts and Mmm hmm. And you make it whatever you want. Really, the idea is to know you a bit better, and get inspired. I think that's the goal of the exercise. So I've put after this question and sneaked a few of them in there. And then I'll ask more detailed question about ethics that I find my exegesis. And if you allow me to quote you in my exegesis after this interview, that would be really cool. So I just wanted to start with the classic question, you know, how did you become a documentary filmmaker and producer? You know, why did you go to afters? Tell me about
Rebecca Barry 10:41
Oh, wow. Look. Well, how I got into film school was, I had actually started a Master's at UTS. And I was I had actually broken up with a boyfriend and I was roaming around the halls on a weekend at UTS, just brokenhearted and you know, depressed and I saw a sign up on the wall that said, you know, apply for Afters, documentary, stones, and I went, Okay, I'll just do that there's a sign I'll just go and apply for it. And anyway, I ended up I ended up getting getting in, but I mean, but before that, I had done an arts in theatre and film at UNSW. Always loved film, always engaged in theatre and creativity, like that was I had a very encouraging mother who, you know, would always sort of, you know, inspire instilled in me that whatever I was interested in, I just happened to be interested in theatre and film and performance and, and things like that. And then, after my initial degree, I went to, I didn't ask Marketing Management traineeship. So I ended up at a post production house making coffees, for people and eat little platters of fruit at afternoon tea at morning tea. So I'd like go in and meet all these amazing editors and directors and producers and make coffees for them and then have, you know, make coffees for them and got to know their coffee orders. And, you know, I was there for a little while, and then I ended up wanting to, you know, pursue this as a career. And anyway, long story short, I ended up being interviewed at AF TRS and everyone that was interviewing me on the panel, I think there were three or four of them at the time, I'd served coffee for them at Island films road work, so I walked in and I knew all their coffee orders. So So I am actually one of those people that started out making coffees, but people but look, you know, had had done all sorts of volunteering on films spent time in the design departments in the art department spent time in the Edit department, you know, volunteering Yeah, so So doing all sorts of things. So I knew I knew that it was felt like I knew that film was the thing that really excited me and I loved that collaborative part of of the artwork of that particular type of artwork and creativity so and, and film school was amazing for me, I think, I think the course is a bit different now. But for me when I when I did the Masters in in documentary writing and directing back in 2000 2001 2001, and it was just an I literally just made films for a year, it was a one year course I moved back home with my mom and dad. And just all I did was focus on making films. So I came up with four really amazing films and they did really well and I got an agent and and then after film school, it was just sort of like this you know, really exciting time, like just, you know, I directed 15 episodes of home and away and you know, did some other drama ya know, did some other drama and you know, having a good old time actually, like it was fun and working on factual television and travelling around everywhere around the world was really exciting, very glamorous. But I did I did really and I had another business as well before media stockade I had another business for four years, which was very productive as well but but look, it's just always been something that I've just loved. I just I feel very passionate about documentary and, and but also it is. It is storytelling, really because media stockade is now diversifying into drama. like DNA, or DNA will always be real people real stories, but we're finding other ways of exploring those ideas. So and look, I'm and then just how I operate in the industry like I
Rebecca Barry 15:20
you know, my dad had a small engineering firm, and I would always go out and spend holidays with him at the office and running the office and all of that type of thing. And so for me, it was really clear that I had a bit of an entrepreneurial spirit, and I liked the idea of being in command of my own ship. I mean, obviously, I've got my wonderful collaborator and co founder, Madeline Heatherton. But yeah, so how we operate is that we, we create our own projects, and we also collaborate with other filmmakers. And to be quite honest with you, the reason we formed media stockade is because out of frustration, because this is this is pre Me, too. And pre, you know, the friggin, you know, the stats around filmmaking and women directing and producing, it's, you know, it wasn't, I mean, it's improving, um, it wasn't as bad as it was, but it was a really difficult time. So we felt like we were literally forced into forming our own company, to actually make the stuff that we wanted to make. And I knew, because I'd run a business before and also, I'd seen I never had the mystery around running your own business, because I saw it every day in the holidays when I went out and worked with my dad. So So for me, it was like our this, this is a way to command your own ship. Make your own stuff. And, and also, you know, I've got a wonderful collaborator with Medellin, you know, we were sort of,
Flore Vallery-Radot 17:04
did you meet?
Rebecca Barry 17:06
We actually met at school would you believe? Yeah, so she was the year above me at school. And, and I was, I was best friends with her sister Pip, and at school and, and then we're in each other's orbits for quite a while. And then we just sort of, and then I ended up being a year above her at film school. And then so we sort of had this sort of crossing pathways. And then, and then we moved to send a bit of a loose end, I think after sort of mid, mid 2000s. And, and we started meeting every couple of weeks, just to kind of keep each other accountable, and discuss ideas and, and then and then. And then we decided to pursue the surgery ship together. After pitching it round. And we were actually going to, we got very close with doing a well handing the rights over to a larger company. And it was just such a bad deal. It was just like the worst deal of all time, it was basically i You sign over everything to us, you get no back end, we'll give you a job on your own film. But that's it. And I just walked out of that meeting going this is just the worst deal of all time. I think we should do it ourselves. And she goes, Okay, let's do it. And then we got it up with net jet. We got up with SPS, and then we got up with NatGeo. So we had an eight part series on that geo so. Yeah.
Flore Vallery-Radot 18:42
And what roles do you prefer? Do you prefer the role that's up to director or the role of the producer? On both? Yeah, that's
Rebecca Barry 18:51
tricky. It's both Yeah. I mean, I really love I've been mainly producing the last while but, um, and what I love about it, I love collaboration, and I love I think my super one of my superpowers is connecting people and I'm really good at selling people and, you know, like, and I love underdogs, like I love kind of, you know, proving people wrong and you know, so that's how we've worked with emerging. We've gotten a lot of emerging filmmakers, you know, their first credits, which is really exciting. And but I still love directing as well. And I haven't actually done it for a while I think you can get when you run your own business, one of the downsides is that you you have to run the business, you know, and there are mouths to feed and you've got to, you know, so we're just finding ways of making sure that we do get our creative outlet with directing. But I actually think directors I mean, Unless you unless you're happy for the rest of your life being really not having much control, like if you're like, I actually do think directors need to have producing skills, and they need to understand the business. Like, for me, it's this, it's this, it's the alchemy, between filmmaking is the alchemy between business science and technology and creativity. And you don't have to be good at everything, but you need to have, you need to understand it, you need to have understands how all of those things interconnect. It's like no other art form, neither of them is like this. And if you only just want to be creative, then I would seriously suggest you just go away and paint in your mom's garage, and do because, and go for it. And good luck to you. But like, if you're in film, like this is the machinations of how, you know, you can't make a film unless there's a business case for it, you can't you know, it can't be beautiful, unless you've got money, it can't, you know, or you've got a lot of time, it's that classic kind of alchemy of of stuff. So anyway,
Flore Vallery-Radot 21:12
I think film school makes it quite clear. Now there is and and we need to be we most of us are sole traders for now. And we need to find that balance of unicorn projects, serious projects and workhorse projects and understand how the dynamic between that work. And I was about to ask you about that. How do you make that balance between your unicorns, your dream projects, and your your workhorse broad projects, but also your family or your private life? And try to make that balance of these three heads work together? How do you do that?
Rebecca Barry 21:54
Yeah, yeah, well, um, I think probably a bit of the magic that we haven't made a stockade is that I have got an extraordinary collaborator in Medellin, like we have, we have a very, like, we do have a different we have a lot of overlapping skills. And we do have different meanings. But we have the same shared values. So we've got we've got a very similar outlook on life. And, and so our films and our subject matters, that we're usually very aligned on most things like I'd say, 90 94% of the time, we're aligned on, you know, do we want to work on this and, and, you know, we can see potential and things we, you know, we'd like to work in a similar way and stuff. So that's, that, that really works for us.
Rebecca Barry 22:58
And then, in terms of how it works, like, sort of, gosh, I know, it's, I mean, I had to go spiritual on you, but like I have, I just have this innate belief in things, and when I have that innate belief, I don't know what it is some sort of flow thing. Like, I can make that happen, or I can, like, it's just something that it's just, it's a sense of belief or something that helps, I don't know,
Flore Vallery-Radot 23:37
to trust as well. Because of your you know, that you can.
Rebecca Barry 23:41
Yeah, and I think I think when it when it doesn't work, like usually, usually I haven't listened to my instinct, or, you know, because it doesn't work all the time. But But look, it's how like, gosh, I mean, all of the projects that we have on our slate, I just love them. I just, I'm totally addicted to them, I want to see them made, and I will fight for them. So that's how I get stuff done. And it's a friggin marathon. It's like every film has some crazy thing that happens without a doubt from a legal case to uh, you know, whatever. It's just you know, every single one has got a challenge and you just have to kind of accept that and know that you can get through it. Lean on your relationships have great collaborations. I think all of that stuff really, really helps in terms of work life balance. Look, I'm I don't have children so I can't but Madeline does Madeline has a child and and we also have we're very supportive of carriers within our organisation so we do have you know, we have flexibility and that flexibility works for me as well,
Flore Vallery-Radot 25:00
but I was about to say, you don't need to have kids, I was more thinking of your own. You know, your own calm moments, your own moments where you need to escape, you need to go on a holiday, you need to go see movies instead of other movies and need time for yourself go to a restaurant and have that time for you.
Rebecca Barry 25:23
Oh, look, all of that stuff. I mean, look, I'm, I'm getting much better at switching off. Like I'll, I will, I mean, unless we've got an international phone call, like I'm, I'm, I switch off after six 630 Because I understand that I need to pace myself I need to be rested, I need to connect with my partner, I need to watch some episodes of Game of Thrones. And you know, I need to just kind of what The Handmaid's Tale or whatever it is that's going on heartbreak at the moment, you know, so it's like, all of all of that stuff is really important. So you do have to pace yourself, I'm getting a lot more better at focused work. Because I do have a my one of my weaknesses is that I'm a pro, I'm a very productive procrastinator. So because I have an addiction to collaboration, I, I'm I'm such a good collaborator, and I love connecting people, and I'll, I'll, but that's also a way that I procrastinate, when I know I've got my passion project that needs love and attention, like that always kind of always is the one that falls down the pile. So that's, that's so in my perfect like, in the work that, you know, we're working with other collaborators or, you know, I'm, it's all happening, it's all but if, if it's my project I and it relies on me to lead it. That's why it took me a long time to do my PhD. Like all like wait,
Flore Vallery-Radot 27:03
I'm glad to hear that. Because when I'm reading because it's really big thinking, Oh, my goodness, I mean, how much work did you put into that? It's enormous. Enormous. Do you have duration?
Rebecca Barry 27:16
Well, I took double what it normally takes people but that's because and but it was a really good thing to learn. And to finish is that I learned that about myself, I learned that I need to commit time and energy to my own projects. So that's actually a focus. And that's the same as Madeline as well. And I think when you when you do run the company, a company a successful one that's always got stuff on, you've got to, and you do have a passion project like and I've got to but like, I will be happy just to direct to my films in my life. To that's all I want the rest, I can do the producing the rest of the time. But these projects are ones that I just need to tell. And then my stories and I you know, so I've got to commit time to that time I'm getting, you know, I've got some goals around improving on that. So I can no longer say that I'm a productive procrastinator, I'm actually a just productive on my own project. So yeah, this is great.
Flore Vallery-Radot 28:22
I've got a question that is comes from a class we had at Afters, about the life after afters. And this this amazing woman who's the head of animation. And who asked us to find our core values. And she was explaining that, when you found a few key words could be two. Could be could be five. But as soon as you commit to them, then it makes your decision making easier and easier and more straightforward. Maybe not easier. But she I think she had honesty and, and kindness or something like that or empathy. And, and for example, when she when she was offered jobs on films, or she felt again, I don't really like these people, I don't really like the subject. It doesn't work with my honesty. I can take that job even if I desperately need the money. So there was a lot of decision making for her that were made because of these core values. And I thought it was very interesting approach. And especially when it comes to your favourite subject of PhDs. I think it is super important to have these values. So I was wondering if you had a core values?
Rebecca Barry 29:51
I do. I've got my little notebook here. Just pulled that out while you were talking. And that's what I wrote. When did I write this that's those are my four words.
Flore Vallery-Radot 30:04
Oh, fabulous. Okay,
Rebecca Barry 30:05
so I'll tell you about that ethical, strong savvy and kind. And actually, I'm going to add another word and it's audacious, like, that's my other word that I want to add, because I want to be kind of, you know, I want I want to be audacious, but, um, but I totally get what she's saying, I think that is so important. Knowing who you are, and what your value system is, will affect everything that you do from the collaborators that you work with, to the subjects that you are working on, and to the quality of the work. Like I actually, I actually do really think that that doing that work on yourself is really important. And, and it does make you know, the, you know, the people that it makes it easier to find the people that you want to work with. So, for us, it used to be when we make a decision about whether or not we're going to collaborate on a project with someone externally. It used to be our it has to be great story, great people. And now we've actually flipped that it's got to be great people. And then great story. So the people, people are really important people whose shared values. You know? And, yeah, definitely. So I think, yeah, find out what those words are.
Flore Vallery-Radot 31:32
Yeah, it's, it's very inspiring. And I think this is the first step to create anything, really. And so it, it comes to them to the question of best professional practice in your fields. I think coming from these words, what do you think these are in what you do? What are the most that what are the key words for you?
Rebecca Barry 32:03
Ah, well, if I'm, if I'm thinking about it from people that we collaborate with respect, and professionalism, I think is really, really important. Having, you know, done directing in the past, and now doing producing, I think it's an instead of, I've seen it from both sides, I think it's really so important for directors to really respect what the producer does. And, and that there's this because often, the producer is putting all of their assets on the line to make a project, like, when we make a project that has the producer offset attached to it, you know, we can be taking out huge loans, you know, up to a million dollars sometimes. So, you know, you having, you know, and that's, you know, respecting this, like this is just practical things but respecting the schedule, coming up with creative solutions to problems, not just whinging about, you know, you can't get the you can't get the RV for, you know, your little shoot for something or do you know what I mean? Like, I just think professionalism and respect, I think having a sense of humour is really important.
Rebecca Barry 33:37
And yeah, I don't I don't I don't know what else I'd put on that list. But
Rebecca Barry 33:46
yeah, just respectful and professional. definitely up there. Yeah. I mean, all of those things are just mentioned before, but and a sense of humour. Yeah. I think that would help.
Flore Vallery-Radot 34:05
Yeah, absolutely. No, I love that I've got in mind reliable because I feel I'd film school, I thought it was more important than talent. In lots of cases, if you have an amazing amount of talent, but you don't show up. I don't care about your talents really lead to the problem. So I think Well, I think it's what you mean, as well by being professional?
Rebecca Barry 34:27
Absolutely. That's exactly what I mean. That's exactly what I mean. Like, it's Don't let me down, please.
Flore Vallery-Radot 34:34
Yeah, no, absolutely. And for me, I learned the hard way the collaboration system needs to be built around that I think this the core core value, and everything collapses if you don't have that one.
Rebecca Barry 34:48
Oh my gosh. And like I'm sorry if there are so many talented people. There are so many talented people out there. And I would look there is some there's some like I'll just use the exact ample of cinematography, there is some extraordinary cinematographers out there. And there's probably a bandwidth of like, there's just like, top, you know, whatever. And then there's a bandwidth of where that the talents kind of within a 5% range. Now the key might be down the bottom of just inching up into that. 5%. But if you're more professional, nicer to be around, reliable, and help us out occasionally, like, I'm going to employ you then the then the diva, who just wants, you know, every lens and, you know, needs three assistants and, you know, has to have his coffee has to have their coffee order a particular way, gentlemen, like it says that, I would much rather, you know, give someone inching into that, that space. That's why we work with a lot of, you know, people emerging who are just on that cusp of, you know, they've, they've proven themselves in some respects, but they just need that leap up. And I know that those people have, you know, you know, they want to make an impression, and they want to, you know, really show what they can do, and often that that's the best, the best type of person because they've still got that enthusiasm as well. So, but yeah, but yeah, professionalism, slash. And reliability is part of that. Definitely. Yeah.
Flore Vallery-Radot 36:30
Yeah. That's great. I also wonder about the types of pressure or challenges that you have in your line of work, what's, what's difficult, and, and what tools have you built up
Flore Vallery-Radot 36:48
with experience that helps you build that resilience that you need to face those challenges?
Rebecca Barry 36:58
Yeah. Oh, gosh, I mean, the challenge is a sad, different and varied like,
Flore Vallery-Radot 37:10
very, very vast question. I'm so sorry. Yeah.
Rebecca Barry 37:13
No, no, that's some. I mean, like, it could be anything from, you know, being being sued. Like, that was a huge challenge that we had to face about three years ago. And that was terrifying. But we've got we won.
Flore Vallery-Radot 37:36
Yeah, ask what it was about. Can you talk about this?
Rebecca Barry 37:41
Yeah, shall we? We made a film called the opposition. And it was set in Papua New Guinea. I've seen Yeah. And one of the one of the participants that Holly the director was following, was very happy to be part of a film. Until which time she decided to work for this, this company that had forcibly evicted this community that she'd previously been a human rights defender for. So she basically changed her mind about being in the film, and then with the backing of the company decided to sue us. And yeah, so I guess through that type of thing, you just, will you get through it, you put your head down, and you do the work, and you just make sure that it happened that you succeed. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's interesting, I do think, if you have certain a certain temperament as a filmmaker, you'll, you'll do well, like, I have a don't gamble. Like, I don't gamble my money, however I do. I do gamble on things that I believe in. So like, I have a bit of a high risk thresholds in terms of and I do think that this whole career is basically basically that you have to back yourself and your your opinion and, you know, your, you know, instincts on a story and, and things like that. So you've got to kind of have a sense of self and confidence. And that's not to say that I'm a very confident person. I suffer a lot from, you know, lack of self confidence, sometimes like it's quite, you know, paralysing at times, but But ultimately, I do think, you know, I do trust my instincts. And I think that resilience is built up over time. Like it used to be, you know, when you get rejected, rejection is every day Like this morning, I just got a phone call and got rejected. And last week, we've got rejected for something else. And it's like, really, you know, and now and it's like, but that's life, you know. And then and then like, I usually can recover with, like this morning, it took me 510 minutes to recover. Used to be like, months. Maybe, Oh, that'd be two years. And, you know, but I know because I've always got A, plan B, plan C, Plan D Plan G happening so I can always you know, I've always I'm always kind of going if this doesn't work out, what can we do next and and then a bit what one other thing that drives me is that I love proving people wrong. I just love it. Like, if someone's rejected me, and I just go, Ah, I'm going to show you, us so you're going to regret this. This is going to be one of those moments in your career where you go, Oh, man, I wish I wish I had backed that, you know, so I love kind of proving people wrong. And look, they might never know that I'm proving them wrong, but it they might. But they might. But it's but it's actually fuel for my fire because I'm just gonna I'm not gonna let this I'm not gonna let this stop me. You know, until like, and I had a, I had a crazy uncle who was actually bonkers. But he did teach me one thing. He was the world's best salesman. And he and he said to me once he said, he said back, don't accept no for an answer until they've said it six times to your face. So there's always kind of and I don't annoy people. I do not annoy people. But it's like, I sort of think more globally, the bigger picture about that. But it's like, yeah, there's there's so many different ways to make film get it financed. Yeah, but it's, it's not for the faint, it is not for the faint hearted. I'm sorry, if you want a lovely cushy job, there's lots of those, you know, you know, try something somewhere else. Because this is this is going to break your heart sometimes. And when you are making a film, you'll be exhausted. And then you have to release the film and it literally is like running a marathon. So strap in.
Flore Vallery-Radot 42:25
Um, I'm on the with the head of the documentary director. I think there isn't a need for a lot of resilience when you especially when you face people's difficult lives, I think or, or even, you know, in the case of my daughter, I think she's got a beautiful life. I hope I'm offering that with these. But I think she does have moments of doubt that I feel tragic. You know, and I don't know how to handle that. How do you build resilience? Are you inspired by people's resilience, their own resilience in that you observe as a documentary filmmaker? How do you
Rebecca Barry 43:08
hide? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, it's a real privilege. Facilitating testimony and people's stories, like it really is. I always just kind of like, particularly with with, I'm a girl. And there's a whole range of stories in that film. And there's a couple of really tragic stories like Oh, my God, like Kim, say, in Cambodia, and you just go it's just it's almost, it's almost too much. But it's important that people see her story because she wanted to tell her story. And it's, and when we were making when we were filming that Nicola the DOP, and I, you know, we'd go back to the hotel, and we just like, we would just be aghast that, you know, what Kim say was going through. And you like, when, when, but when she's telling you that story, and you're in that filmmaking space, like your role is not to get upset, it's actually not about you at all. It's about holding a space that's safe, and where she were, the focus is on her and her story and, and, and sitting with that, and creating like a safe space for her to feel that that's possible. And that you can you can get upset afterwards, like later, because it's not, it's not your story. It's not happening to you. And actually, I learned that during one of the jobs I had after film school was that the Australians at war film archive, and we had when we're doing the training for that we interviewed a lot of war veterans and they were telling us some, you know, some pretty horrendous things that happened to them. But when we're doing the training, the psychologist, the consultant psychologist was just sort of talking to us about what might come up for them for the people that we were filming with and supporting them, but also what might come up for you. And it's and the thing that really resonated with me was this went when the psychologist said out, but just you always have to remember that it's not happening to you to you need to really, you know, you can emote and empathise in a, you know, but it's not. You know, the tragedy of that human doesn't belong to you. You have to, I don't know if that's making sense. So it's not your role to get upset and, you know, oh my god, it's so hard for me to tell this story, you know, cry, cry, cry, it's like, actually, it's the person in front of the camera is trusting you with their stories. So you have to, you know, revere and honour that story. Yeah.
Flore Vallery-Radot 46:08
And what I find hard is when that story resonate with with yours, and then all of a sudden it becomes really hard to detangle these internal words, you see what I mean? Yours and theirs. And because you've been through the same thing, you you feel maybe it's wrong, but you feel like you understand really well you empathise in profoundly, and that makes makes you sometimes inept, or inept to, to feel I mean, in a way?
Rebecca Barry 46:44
Well, yeah, and look, I can say that. I mean, but that's a challenge of your story that you're telling with your daughter like that. But in some ways, like, that's the beauty of it, because it's like, you can't avoid an established relationship that is between a mother and a child like that's, that's going to be impossible, right? And yes, there is a power disparity and mother daughter power disparity, but your, your son love each other, and you care for each other. And that's, that's, that's different. I guess I was more thinking about more of a sort of, you know, an outsider coming in, in relationship. But I think that what you're exploring with your daughter, I mean, that's that I mean, that, does it feel like that's part of the story that interconnection that relationship, like, and there'll be, there'll be power in that, like, I think that there's a real power?
Flore Vallery-Radot 47:38
Absolutely, I think this is an and again, it can be really pretty sad stories. But when I talked about that, I was more thinking on my shoot for landscape where this woman came to talk to me about domestic violence. And I have been through that, personally. And when she described, you know, what happened to her physically, I found that absolutely unbearable, to listen to her. Because I, I couldn't handle it at all. And I felt so weak. After this, I thought, Oh, my goodness, I think I'm spending so much money into that, that diploma that you know, masters and, and I want to become a documentarian, but then a woman comes to me and tells me a story that millions of women relief, and I can't handle it. I mean, I should go sales, right? It's your french fries on the beach. instead?
Rebecca Barry 48:41
I think you need to give yourself a break. Because what you're talking about is trauma. Yeah, that's not that's you can't Yeah, I mean, that had happened to you. So it's different. Like, that's a different and, and look, it's not? Yeah, I mean, you're talking about a trauma that you have had firsthand experience of so how can you know and trauma is not you know, trauma can spring up whenever like it, it just doesn't. That's the thing about trauma, like it can really bubble up and what's interesting is, is that you're, you've chosen to explore that subject. And that part of your healing and process will be attached to so you're, I mean, what that indicated to me is that your your, your body and your heart and your soul are still healing from that. And that, you know, that your attraction to that participant was maybe doing something subconsciously for you, which you knew an audience would find helpful and, and therapeutic for that woman like I think a lot of the time, people external people, and also some people within documentary they feel, or they, you know, there's always this worry that we're using our participants, like we're using them for the story or for our own. For our own means, and but actually testimony can be a really powerful act of healing for people. And like, just to use the example of Kim say, again in in, I'm a girl like, I know, like, it's such a devastating story. And I know that there will be some people who go, Oh, you took advantage of her? And, you know, and it's like, well, actually, I don't believe I did, like, because I remember her. When I came back when we came back to film the second time. I am. We're just sort of meeting everyone again, and the family and and we started having I had started having a little chat with Kim saying she said, I said, How are you? And she goes, Oh, no, no, no, we'll wait until the cameras on because I want to, I want to, I want to tell you through the camera. And she and so it was like this very kind of, you know, here's this young woman who just wanted to, she understood the power of what I was providing to, you know, that I was the vessel through which she could tell her story. But I do believe that there was some therapeutic value in her testimony. Because no one in her life. Really had ever asked her how she felt about anything. Yes, I guess the truth. That's the truth about her life? And she had you? Yeah. Yeah. And she didn't want to be, you know, she just demanded not to be invisible. So,
Flore Vallery-Radot 51:54
and it's, you're talking about that in your PhD, when you reference this person, I don't remember his name, who talks about the problem of the imbalance of power. And it works when everyone has an agenda, both of the behind and in front of the camera, and then that works, that the power is, is balanced. And the balance is established by by that need of each person. I love that concept. And I think possibly in that case, it was what happened. You would benefit from it,
Rebecca Barry 52:29
both of you. Yeah. And that's not to say that it's not perfect, because if I was to make that film today, I would do it completely differently.
Flore Vallery-Radot 52:39
Well, that's interesting, because the question Yeah, to ask you that question. I let me know, let me know what, let's, yeah, yeah, what you would change,
Rebecca Barry 52:52
I would, I would do it very differently. So obviously, when I made that film, it was sort of in a different age, like, I felt like a different like it was, gosh, to almost 10 years ago, more I can remember 2013 coming up to 10 years is when we let released it that. So that was sort of like a different time. And now. Like I would make that film, first of all, I would put the girls more in control of their story. And I'm not sure how we would do that. But it would possibly involve having a female filmmaker in each country. Like, sort of working and nurturing. And working with the steward with the with the participants. So giving, giving people I mean, filmmaking is a skills you need to have someone who understands technology and the cameras and, and things like that. So I didn't mean to put my finger up my nose was meant to describe it, sorry. But, um, so I would do something around, you know, look more, you know, collaborative filmmaking. You know, I would make sure that they were looking at more cuts of themselves. I'd make sure that yeah, there were we had quite a lot of challenges with translation. So I think having, you know, empowering an up and coming female filmmaker in each country to kind of work with them and make it more longitudinal perhaps. So that's how I'd probably and to really, you know, make sure that they felt that they were in control of their stories. I don't think like, this is something that I've come to myself, I think all of the girls, the young women now but they all I'm in touch with most of them and they've had you know, they love the film and they you know, they're really proud of the film but So yeah, if I was making it to vote would be different. Yeah.
Flore Vallery-Radot 55:06
So you would you would have a cinematographer in the room and a filmmaker who would be from that country. So who'd be able to understand what's going on? Maybe better. And then you would have considerations in post production, where they would have access to some rushes and or at least a rough cut. Wait, so what I've chosen.
Rebecca Barry 55:31
Okay, yeah, that's right. And look, we, you know, we did, we, we, we were able to do that a couple of times with our girls for ima girl, ahead of publication, but when we there was, there was some annoying constraints in that some of our partners wanted to release it really quickly. And I think that now what I would do is I would, I would, I would outline that process of collaboration with the participants right at the start with my partners. So that, you know, they would understand why we'd need to delay, like, the release, or, you know, giving things more time because that, all of that that consultative process requires time, particularly when people don't have access to the internet, or you know, that they're not close to a computer, I don't know how to use a computer. So. So I would as as the producer, I would make sure that manage my partner's expectations around, you know, honouring the process with the with the participants. So, and that's just something I learned, because I think at the time, I was just like, oh, this is my first feature. And I'm just going to, you know, please everybody. And of course, I almost killed myself in the in the process, because it was just a ridiculous schedule, and a lot of crazy things happened. And so yeah, there's there's Yep. Sorry.
Flore Vallery-Radot 57:17
No, no, sorry. Yeah, I find it very interesting, because when I watched it, I thought it was a huge endeavour to talk to so many different girls in so many different places with so many different power relationship with you. And also power relationship within their own community as a girl. And it's what makes the film Fantastic. It's because of all the difference, that the same thing. You know, it's, it's this incredible situation where, at the end of the day, it's it's very similar everywhere with girls have to be confronted to but at the same time, it's in a completely foreign environment for us. From from from every single one of them. So I've always wondered, gosh, how did she survive? How did she make it? How did you know? There's lots of questions, and it's interesting to see you reflect on that? I think it's, it's fantastic. So I'm gonna question about the opportunities that it's a bit of a jump, but opportunity do you think that are available for rookie documentary filmmakers like me, at this moment in time in the industry? What's your advice? That's because you were talking about coffee making? I'm very keen to make coffee. But yeah, it's it's difficult because when you're a soundy, or you cinematographer, it's quite easy. I mean, easy. You're sounding you thinking, Oh, do I do post on do I do capture or do we, you know, but there's simple questions in documentary, but we are a bit of a jack of all trades. So it's difficult to find a path and what would be your advice?
Rebecca Barry 59:01
Yeah, look, it is tricky. I mean, there are there are some great opportunities out there. I know. I mean, we just executive produced the uncovered SBS strands, so they every year I think they're doing it again this year. You know, you submit an idea for a half hour documentary to to the strand and, you know, it's a great opportunity to get your first you know, close to first broadcast credit, so keep an eye out for that one. I know that there's like Doc doc society has, you know, lots of different opportunities, whether that's developing projects, being a part of labs. I know they've got the climate lab. I think it's on at the moment where you create like a short five minute documentary about climate change, and you know, they'll end up on a, on a, they'll end up on ABC. And then you also get the wraparound support from Duck, duck doc society. I mean, in terms of like, if you're a director and your, your focus a doc director, and you're focusing on that, you can obviously work out your ideas, get the two pages together, and then pitch it to a couple of companies, really thinking about your audience and where it where it's gonna land, like, everything has to have a commercial imperative. Like, you have to understand our this will go really well on ABC, or this will go on ABC, on on SBS, or, you know, and this is the strand that it would be good for, ya have to think about all of that, it's just not enough to make a nice creative film that expresses yourself, it's got to have a commercial imperative. And then in terms of like skilling up, like, if you've got strong research skills and writing skills, like, you know, getting getting a job, as a researcher, or you know, those can often be the jobs that help pay the bills, or whatever, and, you know, and you're also developing your research and writing skills as you go, and then that can feed into your other other work. And we're always really Stockade, we're always on the lookout for good, you know, good researchers and, and stuff. And it might might be might be a month, a month's work, or it might be or we just need someone to spend 20 hours on researching, you know, something, and then we do a proper brief for them. And, you know, he can and then there's also things like, you know, catalyst, some of those other programmes that are always on the lookout for, for people, but putting yourself out there putting stuff up on the Facebook pages, and you know, and giving it a go. Yeah,
Flore Vallery-Radot 1:02:24
it's good. Yeah. My, my favourite skill is cinematography, I really like to shoot. So it's, I can't compete with people who've done the I mean, it's rich things I can, but I need to get a bit more self confidence. Really like a photographer. So I really like the making images. And I think there's a way maybe to enter as a third AC or something like that.
Rebecca Barry 1:02:55
Shoot a producer, because we really good for you. Icon factual TV like shooter. That's I did a lot of shooter producing and studied mandolin. So you've actually got a camera like, it's not usually the main camera, but it's like a, a B camera for factual observational stuff. And yeah, so if you've got a knack for that. Yeah, that's, that's often good. Thank you. Yeah. And it's often good to see, like, if you're going to do shoot a producer, like, try and get into the edit suite when they're using your materials so that you can work out what works and what doesn't. And because I think sitting in edits, makes you a better shooter.
Flore Vallery-Radot 1:03:38
Yeah, for sure. And I've I've edited all my films until this capstone film, where the school asked us to work with an editor and editor. And I think it's very interesting to learn how to collaborate as well. And not not to be too controlling and have someone having another idea especially in the film that is about my friends. Think I probably too biassed to have a good idea of what I should be doing. I've got a few more questions in there about ethics. Tell me, we're past the hour. So tell me if you see on your good,
Rebecca Barry 1:04:10
let me just check. Yep, no, that's fine. Let's go for it. Just
Flore Vallery-Radot 1:04:15
tell me and we stop instantly. If you have someone calling or anything, please, I can send those questions away with you know, by email. So I just wanted to have a throw at you. A question about if you if you imagined to involve your child or a member of your family, someone you loved very close to you into your own film. What risk would you identify? And this is especially ethical risks. And what potential tools would you would you use now after a few years after you wrote that PhD?
Rebecca Barry 1:05:00
My gosh, it's hard. That's hard. I mean, obviously you would look at, we'll look at the your relationship and like the, and how did you approach your daughter about being involved in something like this? And sort of really taking an honest look at yourself about, you know, am I kind of forcing her to do this? Or is this? Was she doing this to please me? Or, you know, why is she doing this? What's in it for her? Like, she's 11, right? Like, does she actually? And does she actually understand? She's 11. Now? Can she does she have the forward thought to think about? Well, what how am I going to feel about this when I'm 20? Or how am I going to feel about this? When I've left university, I'm going for my first job as a serious lawyer. And here I am talking about periods. You know, like, what does? You know, what does that and I'm sure, it'll be fine. But but it's just making, helping her to understand not just the now but also the future. And what that means. And being really clear, like doing a lot of work about being really clear about why you're making this together, and and when you say, collaboration, what does that actually mean? Like, it sounds like you've done work on this already, like I'm sure you have.
Flore Vallery-Radot 1:06:39
But I just didn't see how you see it from because I thought about it for for a year and a half. So I'm completely drowned in it. But I like the fresh look that you have on it and fresh, not that fresh, because very mature look like a good one, because you've written so much about it. But it's a fresh project. So I really liked what you're seeing, I think, I'm glad actually went through all the process you're describing. But yeah, for me, have you ever thought of or have you ever done behind the scenes interviews about content? And I'm thinking, I don't know, if you remember this chronicles of a summer daco, the French daco, where at the end of the DVD, or at the end of the film, actually, actually, I think it's fun in the film, where they all discuss, all the participants are in the cinema, they've been watching the film, and they all argue so hard, it's French staffs. It's extremely violent. And everyone's having a very strong opinion about how if this film should have been done, if it was respectful for the participants, if their voice was well represented, etc. And a lot of them thought not, but it's a super interesting thing, I think, to have a behind the scene moment. Could it be for I'm a girl, for example, could have been interviewing about a consent on camera, but not to put in the film and declare about let's have this conversation.
Rebecca Barry 1:08:10
We did. We did do video consent, we did do filmed consents. And that was for a number of reasons. We also got the traditional form, you know, the traditional release form signed. And we didn't, we didn't include the obviously we didn't include the video consents in the in the final piece, but we call it what do I call it? A meeting of consent, I think it's called a carrier, or I call it and we would feel like they'd be like this process of, you know, you, without cameras, we'd go and meet up participant potential participants and give them a sense of the story. And you know, what was involved and how much we wanted to come and film and what we're going to be talking about, and how do they feel about it, and there'd be someone there that they that cared about them like an advocate. And then we'd give them a cooling off period. And then we'd come back and we'd actually film very roughly the consent process where we'd have the girl, parent or advocate, US and a translator, and we'd just basically talk through, like the, all of that stuff that I just talked about. So what was involved what you're going to talk about, did they understand Do they have any questions? You know, and then we and then we filmed it. And I mean, and, you know, no one ever saw those, like, they're just something that we decided to do because I think the concern that I had was that often Paper, the written consent. A lot is lost in translation. And you can never really be sure if people and there's like, you know, potentially literacy issues and all sorts of things. So I do think I do think I've filmed video, consent is a great idea. And you don't necessarily have to show that to anybody, like it can just be something that you do, because you will most likely get this will be interrogated, the film will be interrogated for this, particularly if it's successful, and you're talking about it. And, you know, people go well, how did you? How did your daughter give consent?
Flore Vallery-Radot 1:10:37
You know, I've I've already had a very confrontational opinion about what I do from the school itself. And I've had member of the academia, the school telling me that do resist you're very selfish and stupid idea. And that was a very bad mother. So I, I, and one of my questions is about that it's about the, you know, the adverse reactions that you have about making films with children, especially, or young people like you did. A hard you, you know, how did you react to these reaction? How do you prepare for those?
Rebecca Barry 1:11:23
Yeah, look, that's a very extreme response, isn't it? Yeah, it was. God. Yeah, I don't, that lacks a lot of insight and nuance, I think. Well, look, I mean, I, I, I made a conscious choice to go for girls that to film with girls that were a bit older, in terms of their teenage years. So I think, I think Kim, say was 14 when we first met her, and then was 17, when we filmed with her again, and, and the other girls, so it kind of ended up being on the brink of womanhood. So so I kind of, in some respects, avoided a lot of that controversy, I guess. And Manu, the girl who was pregnant, she actually was a bit older. She was 19, when we filmed with her, so there was sort of, and we, there are a couple of girls that we could have filmed with that were younger, and it's just sort of felt a bit wasn't quite right. You have to trust your process. So you have to and you're developing it, and you have to trust it. And to me, it's sounding like you're doing all the right things. I would just in terms of your research, like, there is something that for me, doesn't quite fit right with the term and I'm just talking about the term, the intimacy coordinator for a documentary and because to me, like the way that I understand it, intimacy coordinator role, it's like dealing with people who are doing a sex scene or kissing scene or, you know, something close proximity,I totally understand like this person, this intimacy coordinator, slash psychologist, sounds like an extraordinary human who has exceptional skills, and all the things that you actually need for this film that you're making. But I'm just wondering if your contribution to knowledge is that you're proposing, like one of your recommendations through your, what you're developing is your own process is that when there's like, you know, and, you know, a problematic, ethical dilemma, that is the core of your film, which is a mother making a daughter a film with their daughter, that young daughter, is there a role? It's essentially the role of the intimacy coordinator, because you found this great person that you connect with, and she's a great collaborator. But is it caught in documentary? Is it called something else? Like, is it an ethical and ethics consultants, ethical? German, because I'm just wondering, because it feels like like, this person is obviously bringing in amazing skill set. But like, it feels quite like the term like, oh, like, I totally get the role that this person is playing. But the the term is wrong. The term doesn't quite fit for Doc,
Flore Vallery-Radot 1:21:32
I agree that. Absolutely. And the funny bit is that the intimacy coordinator I have worked with, and I talked to other ones that don't like the term because their job is actually shifting into a form of consent officer, as well. They're not only there for intimacy scenes anymore. Now they're there, for example, if there is in the theme, even if it's not even filmed, but someone is making a film about a trauma, just to check if the people involved and that means actors, but also the crew. What what is it going to do to the crew to talk about rape? Or what is it going to do to the to the actors to be within that story? And I think not only you need to check their mental, the mental impact, but also their consent? Yes. Are they really consenting to being part of that project? And what she explained to me is that this role of an intimacy coordinator needs to evolve. And for her, she has a place in documentary, and definitely the name is not appropriate anymore. Absolutely.
Rebecca Barry 1:22:49
Look, I actually think this could be your paver in the pavement, in your terms of your contribution to knowledge, like it feels like, you know, an onset or someone who like is you know, and it's very much based on because each film is individual. And, yeah, I just sort of think, yeah, like, it does sort of feel like finding a name for this role that works holistically for crew participants, documentary that maybe it is more of a an ethics consultant or an unset. Something something. Yeah,
Flore Vallery-Radot 1:23:34
in my in my draft that put a lens consultant. And I think, have you ever worked with someone like that? You were talking about the what is it called the ethic line? You know, the phone line? Ethical? Did you Yes, I haven't called them and I just wanted to know what you thought of these these people. Because in your, in your research, you say on, it's good, but it's not enough. But could it be a first step? Or? Or do you think so?
Rebecca Barry 1:24:02
I mean, look, I possibly I mean, look, it's it's like, come I haven't tried it either. But the ethics centre, they're based in Sydney, they're very approachable. You could call them up and find out what would be involved in a phone call and, and stuff, it seems to me like it's very much like if you have an ethical dilemma, like calling them up, could sort of like an emergency fund line. But like people call up and they go, oh, you know, they don't know what to do, because they don't know they might have a sick parent and, you know, they're on life support, should they switch off the, you know, it's that type of stuff, or it could be something, you know, I found a suitcase full of $100 bills, should I hand it it just could be a whole nother thing. But it's definitely you know, that that was one option that was available. And that still is available. But I would, you could call them up and find out what's involved. And but I actually think what you're proposing as part of your contribution to knowledge, this ethics consultant like that, that makes a lot of sense as an offering, because it's like, because one of my other recommendations is that, you know, that each, each filmmaker finds, you know, at the start of their film creates an ethics and ethical strategy for done yet, which you've done.
Flore Vallery-Radot 1:25:37
Now, if you used the intimacy coordinators, advice on that, so what I did is I wrote the skeleton of one thinking, okay, what can I put on this page, like a brain dump, of all the problems that potentially could happen with my daughter, the lack of knowledge, or what I want to do the lack of understanding of the longevity of the project, the lack of being able to represent herself at 25 The the the want to please me that all sorts of things that can happen to a little girl and also the the system put in place a concrete system of veto, which would work only during filming, because I don't want to do a black, she tried to say, oh, no, I put my veto on that one, I'm gonna not gonna wash for three weeks. So that type of stuff. I and the fact that she can say no, anytime, and I've pushed the veto, which I haven't written in the protocol for financing reason, and you talking about that as well, there's a problem with this. Because if you give veto rights to the I Am A Girl participant, then the people won't finance you. Because it's way too heavy in the contract from what I understand.
Rebecca Barry 1:26:57
I actually think there's a little bit more flexibility about that. But I think there's, I think there's like the you can you can have a contract, like and when I say contract, I mean, like a social contract between you and the participant that's built on trust. So you, I mean, there's stuff that I could have put in the film that I didn't, because I know I knew that that person would feel uncomfortable about it. One thing that I was thinking about is like, is there any impact? Like is this ethics consultant slash intimacy coordinator? Are they are they also performing the role of a an objective? Advocate for your daughter? So yes, they are. Yeah. And it's great to have you set that up. And what, how does that work?
Flore Vallery-Radot 1:27:57
So what I set up is that she would she has had an interview with my daughter alone,
Rebecca Barry 1:28:04
great.
Flore Vallery-Radot 1:28:06
During this interview, she went through the protocol. And her own questions, because she's worked with his children. The difficulty with this particular intimacy coin and all the intimacy coordinators, first, the roll is new. The second, it's mostly fiction, obviously, because they work mostly with actors and crew for fiction. So what we've put in place is that she listened to Leonor for an hour and a half, and then she listens to me. And then she does recommendations for the protocol. There are elements that she shares with me with the discussion. So she's it's not like a psycho psycho analyst or psychologist discussion. She explains to lino that some of the things won't be shared. And if if Leonor says something, and she finds that it's necessary to be shared, she asks that, are you okay? If I share that with your mom? And you can say no, when because she's such a beautiful woman and, and a psychologist, she, she doesn't. It doesn't imply pressure when she asks, because she's explained as an introductory presentation that she's here for her and not for me. So it worked really well, because my daughter immediately felt empowered. She came out with her little notepad and came out in the main room said, I've had my interview. And now I know that I'm the co director. I know what it entails. Because I had explained that, for example, that's a good example, I've had explained what it is to be a co director, as much as you could explain to a 10 year old at the time, and she listened. I probably didn't really miss Sheila. Okay. All right. And then when the intimacy coordinator asked, you know what it means to go during this finish since I've no idea, I know what I'm explaining, I don't really know. So the fact that she was the woman in the middle with a neutral position, made my job much easier as a documentary filmmaker. And the fact that she has her direct contact and can call her anytime if she has doubted of yours uncomfortable. is pretty cool, as well.
Rebecca Barry 1:30:31
You're doing all the right things, you're doing all the right things. I think
Flore Vallery-Radot 1:30:35
what was difficult is that for the intimacy court, we had a bit of a conflict. I mean, conflict, we didn't agree on the protocol at first, because she applied all her knowledge for fiction, and she considered Leonor as an actor. So she wanted to get informed consent or more pure content, she thought that it is important to do a few things first, to inform, etc. But also to make sure that there's a beginning and an end. So that the person the key, especially, who doesn't know anything, and it's, you know, whirlwind of stuff happening around them, then know when they need to be in the film, and when they're living their own life. And I said, That is not possible. In documentary, and she disagreed, so we had a back and forth to three months, a thing that I'm not going to sign that I'm not going to sign up, I had to explain to her that this is the life that I want to capture, not the performance of lino, and I had to have the camera on the bench, because her suggestion was to have a candle, for example, that would be lit at the beginning of the shoot. And at the end, just to book and that moment of work. And I said, this is not work. It's it is for you. But it is not for me. For me, it is my life and my daughter that I want to have a frank conversation with, and I need months of camera on the bench for her to become natural. If you put rituals around that you're going to kill the spontaneity of, of the film, which is the the heart of documentary, almost. So the I think she ended up understanding, but she said, You need to bookend something at one stage. So she said, before you start filming, you do a consent, your consent interview or chat that you feel and you explain that this is the stuff in the film, you are you consenting, these are the things that I need to explain to you. If you have any questions, do you know what consent means etc. And then we'll do the same interview when the fifth film process when the picture lock is done. When we don't have to film anymore, and then we'll sit down and say, Well, this is finished, we still have to put the music and the sound on. But we'll finish the filming. Now you didn't relax. But I can still take my camera whenever I want to take films of you because I've done that all your life. But this project as it is, is finished. I never thought of that. I never thought that. Yeah, this bookend system that is used in in fiction. So I I learned so much from this relationship, and I thought that could be a great. Yeah, great. Take us to Jesus subject. Basically.
Rebecca Barry 1:33:34
It's gonna be great. Hey, look, I am going to have to go because I've got another meeting soon. But hey, look, I just think you're doing all the right things. Like just trust your process. trust your instinct. There will be naysayers like that put that horrible person doesn't sound like they really understand what you're doing. Everything that you've explained to me is sounds really smart, empathetic and safe.
Flore Vallery-Radot 1:34:02
Thank you. Thank you. I have a last question for you. Yeah. Would you? Would you be okay, if I sent you my protocol, just for you to have a little look? And just to, you know, see what you could maybe think, to improve or if you had to apply to the girls in your film, what would you add or something like that? Sure. Amazing. Well, thank you so much. Rebecca was very thrilled to talk to you Sorry, it took so long. That's right.
Rebecca Barry 1:34:33
That's right. But um, hey, look, just keep in touch and best of luck with that. It sounds amazing.
Flore Vallery-Radot 1:34:39
I will send you the finished product. When it's done. Right. It's yeah, it was really thank you for your time. It's really great to meet you.
Rebecca Barry 1:34:49
Good to meet you. Thank you
Reference:
Barry, Rebecca. (2021). The dark grey zone: ethics and power in documentary consent processes.(Doctoral dissertation).
Barry, Rebecca. (2013). I am a Girl. [Documentary]. Testify Media. Distributed by Women Make Movies, TVF International.